Dan Rubin: There are few things in my life that beat talking hockey with another New Englander, so lining up the water cooler to talk with another fine gentleman from the East Coast and the greatest region in the world — I’m all for it this week. Let’s get into dropping our r’s and eating proper lobstah and chowdah with another guy who can rightfully remember when outdoor rinks ruled the Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Hampshire region.
Mr. Doyle, first off — how ya doin’? I’m excited to have you on board this week for another edition of our TMQ, so let’s dive right into it with a couple of major milestones that were achieved this past weekend — the 700th win for Quinnipiac head coach Rand Pecknold and the 500th win for Minnesota-Duluth’s Scott Sandelin.
Both are synonymous with their current programs, but it’s kind of interesting to me how they’ve built their cache with teams that had very different histories. Duluth, for example, joined the old WCHA during its infancy while Quinnipiac might not be in this position without Rand’s dedication to building the foundation from the ground level. Both won national championships at their current stops.
In the present era of college hockey, where legends have departed to retirement and some of the best coaches head to the NHL, are these two of our final lifer examples? And as a secondary question, is Rand Pecknold the last remaining coach who might catch Jerry York’s win total?
John Doyle: I’m doin’ great Mr. Rubin! Yeah, there’s something about New England hockey. We’re both privileged to live within an hour (or two) drive of at least a dozen prominent D-I programs — the Tobacco Road of college hockey, if you will.
Congrats to Quinnipiac coach Rand Pecknold (who, speaking of New England hockey, was born in Bedford, N.H., and played hockey at Manchester [N.H.] West High School) on win No. 700. He and Scott Sandelin reached significant milestones on the same night. Just over a month ago on the night of Oct. 3, Michigan’s Brandon Naurato and Boston University’s Jay Pandolfo each hit win No. 100. Are these all by coincidence? One hundred percent, but they’re fun coincidences.
But as Jerry York might say, congratulations on 700 wins, Rand, but the next 423 are the hard part. For Pecknold to catch York, the former would have to average more than 27 wins a season for at least the next 15 seasons. I have every reason to believe Pecknold has the stamina (he’s only 59) and the coaching acumen to keep up the success he’s had at Quinnipiac, but he’s still got a loooooong way to go.
There are a number of college coaches who will always be sought after by the NHL, but I can see staying at their respective schools for lengthy tenures. As for those who might someday catch York, there’s the aforementioned Naurato, plus David Carle in Denver, who I’ve heard has had some success at a young age but I don’t know much else about him — after all I’m a New England guy.
So let’s stick with some New England/northeast talk. How about Vermont? At 5-3-1 they cracked the USCHO D-I men’s poll this week at No. 20 and deservedly so. In the last three weekends they split with then-No. 11 BU, swept UNH and just took four of six points on the road at Boston College. Can the Catamounts make some noise in Hockey East?
Dan: Absolutely. I think too many folks quickly wrote Vermont out of Hockey East’s race before the year began. Granted, there’s a history lesson in there about how UVM hasn’t finished better than sixth in Hockey East over the last two decades, but there are some numbers to back up how good this team’s gotten over the course of this youthful year. In even-strength situations, the Catamounts are one of the top teams nationally in carrying the puck out of its zone and continuing that momentum into an opponent’s area, and they’ve been equally good at dumping into the zone — which doesn’t guarantee possession but does extend plays and set up a forecheck through the neutral zone. They win a large number of defensive zone battles — slightly better than the Division I average — and they’re generating the bulk of their offense from the circles-in, which means that they’re not misusing their opportunities on low percentage shots from the outer perimeter.
I admittedly wasn’t overly impressed with Vermont as an agent of chaos during the first game at Bentley, but things have gotten progressively better since the Clarkson series. The two wins over UNH involved two very different styles of play — one win was a come-from-behind overtime win while the other involved scoring late in regulation after blowing a two-goal lead in the third period. The two games at BC subsequently required pairing a very good Friday with a Saturday comeback for a shootout win. Points on the road — they’re a very good thing.
Even with a win over a BC team that I think is getting written off far too quickly at the start of the season — that’s probably a conversation for later or another time — I’ve been very impressed with the growth and development of teams like Vermont. It’s actually been super refreshing because it’s an early return on something that I’m constantly hearing right now — that college hockey is getting deeper and deeper with the influx of talent.
Pointing at our latest poll, I used to feel that the teams in the top-5 or top-7 were on another plateau from the rest of the country, but I’d argue that Boston University, Merrimack and Michigan Tech could walk into Western Michigan or North Dakota with a great and tough performance. Miami is already at seven wins — which is considerably more than those years around the COVID-19 pandemic — and is on pace to better last year’s 18-win season. Northeastern is 4-2-0 without a home rink. Army is 6-2-0 and ranked 18th after splitting this past weekend with Air Force.
Beyond the usual conversation about blue bloods and new powers, who’s on your radar for an enjoyable team for folks to start watching?
JD: You mentioned Boston University, which traded blowouts with Michigan State over the weekend. What can one make of that? I guess that’s part of the fun of it, especially in the (entirely plausible) scenario the two teams face each other in the NCAA tournament.
It has been great to see the early season success shared by Miami, Army, Merrimack, Northeastern and Michigan Tech. Let’s throw in Augustana, which is still undefeated at 7-0-3 even after “losing” two at Michigan Tech this past weekend, skating to a pair of 2-2 ties but missing out on the extra standings point each night by falling short in the shootout (only in hockey, I guess). And No. 12 Colorado College, with only one loss in its last seven games (a 1-0 nailbiter at No. 7 Duluth).
The team that’s really caught my eye, however, is Dartmouth. The 11th-ranked Big Green are 4-0, and swept their opening ECAC Hockey weekend with wins vs. Yale and Brown. Dartmouth has yet to play a road game, and faces a huge test on Friday at Quinnipiac, but I fully expect the Big Green to be as strong as they were last year when they made their first NCAA tournament appearance in 46 years.
Dartmouth flew under the radar for the first month of the season — because they didn’t play! And for that, we can thank the Ivy League faction of ECAC Hockey, which implements strict institutional policies that prioritize academics over athletics, limit the length of the season, and restrict early practice times.
Which, to be blunt, I find annoying.
It’s one thing for Ivy League football to start its season three weeks after the rest of Division I. They’re an entirely self-contained conference. But hockey has this unique situation where half of the ECAC is made up of schools whose primary athletic affiliation is Ivy League. As far as I’m concerned, if the Ivies are going to be a member a conference (which, by the way, consists of six other schools that take academics pretty seriously too) that starts the season with the rest of Division I, be a full participant or break off into your own 6-team conference.
Dan: (*sighs defeatedly*) I love a good plenty number of things about the Ivy League, but the disparate number of games and the start of the season always leaves me exasperated because it cannot ever help its teams on the national level. The limited number of non-conference games are coming at a time when league play is starting, so they’re all missing opportunities to push their mathematical resumes to places occupied by other league members. One loss is intensified for the Ivy League schools as a result — Harvard, for example, split with UMass and plays Bentley before playing BC on the Sunday after Thanksgiving, with a game against Dartmouth thrown into the mixer there. Losing to Bentley and BC, at this juncture, leaves the Crimson with few opportunities to regain momentum against similar-ranked teams. Sure there are games against Vermont and there’s always the Beanpot, but losing that game to the Falcons could be problematic with the inherent lower rankings of Atlantic Hockey America teams.
Then again, I’ve also gotten used to this conversation, and the Ivy League coaches understand the situation better than anyone. Until it changes, it doesn’t change, which is a word-salad way of saying, “It is what it is.”
I did some quick NPI math, by the way. If the tournament began today, Dartmouth would own the No. 3 overall seed with Augustana holding the No. 4 seed. Army is No. 10 and Union is a top-12 team. Providence, Denver, Michigan Tech, Miami, and North Dakota would all be out of the tournament. Northeastern and Providence would be bubble teams, as would Merrimack.
So I mean, I suppose it’s too early to crush or boost a team, as it is, right?
JD: It is. Yes, the great thing about college hockey is that thanks to the NPI, every game counts and wins/losses during this part of the season are just as important as ones in late February and early March. But it’s a long season. Look at where Wisconsin and Denver were last January. Both were mired in 6-game winless streaks and though few had them written off as noncontenders, no one had them playing in the NCAA championship game in Las Vegas in April. But that’s where they ended up.
So yeah, it’s only November and I wouldn’t count any team out at this point. As for boosting? Gotta be careful with that too. And unfortunately that goes for all the dark horses that are enjoying hot starts to the season. Can Augustana and Michigan Tech both make the NCAA tournament? It’ll definitely be interesting to see how the CCHA race unfolds and whether or not that league can steal an at-large bid. Can BC right its ship? Will Vermont remain hot? Can Miami make it to 19 wins?
We started this chat talking about New England so I’ll end it on a New England note. Our beloved Patriots started the season 1-2 and people were calling for the quarterback to be benched. Then they win three in a row and are Super Bowl contenders again. Yesterday they were smacked by Green Bay and fans are ready to jump off the Mystic River Bridge. Yet the NFL season only just hit the halfway mark.
The point is, there’s still a long way to go. No one’s been eliminated, but no fan base should start booking early April flights to Washington, D.C.